Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. I agree. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. No picture for me. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. (It wasnt my gun). Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? He was told to shoot two rounds. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. brakes, remember? An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? You arent a gunfighter, either. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Liberal, Conservative. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. They admitted their problem and fixed it. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. I didnt even touch it! Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. Dude, your story is THREE years old. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. No, it doesnt. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. . They wouldnt have adopted it if was. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. 3. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. Anyway around here they do. But this time, the sound bites used were different. Really? Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. A fine of up to $10,000. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. Where is that defect now? The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. U.S. lawsuits Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. And have the dropping 320 go off? So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. No autographs, No self taken pictures. Sigs are crap! Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. I have no idea. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. ALL OF THEM. Bravo. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. Was it his fault? The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. Too Many Accidents Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. One hell of a conspiracy. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. Folks disagree on brands. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. Third, Glock has had problems, too. I dont own a P320. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. Sig can burn for all I care. Seems a bit apologetic to me. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. He points to it in the video. First off, no joke on me. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. is the manual safety a kit you add? The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. . OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet.