There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. Thanks for the input. Thanks again. Sense ells no existirem. Quick View. However, R134a is better than R12. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. Energy usage: R134a is less efficient in cooling compared to R12. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. It does not "pool" to any degree in a large amount anywhere. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. absorb by the evaporator to insure all liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. R-134a XV for R-134a use. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. 5. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. The smoking question & vent airflow indicate that the evaporator is fairly clean - and you are aware of the importance of that.The heater valve stops the flow, but there is always some conduction heating. Not going to mess up your 'do, but you can feel it. Talk about what services you provide. That switch should close @ 52c. Any ideas from the info above? difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. That's a lot isn't it? If 50 degrees across the cond. 2) Frost on the Vents. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. This is not to say that one of these small retro-fit kits cant be used, however to be used wisely. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. look at the difference! R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) Safe but sorry! In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. It is a known suspect that lets heat into the heat exchanger/core even when off because the mono-valve is on the exit side of the heater core. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? The expansion valve is designed so that the temperature of the refrigerant at the evaporator outlet must have 8 to 12F (4 to 7C) of superheat before more refrigerant is allowed to enter the evaporator. The flammables have hydrocarbons. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. It won't be optimal, though. I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). I have a laser temp reader, and it says the temps going into the condensor are up to 160F - coming out it is always around 110 or so. Make sure visiually that no large gaps exist that would allow the air to bypass the condensor on the way to the radiator.B. Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. CR4P). As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. Your old hoses of course will not fit. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. This can be very very expensive. As per their results . The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. Break out the new gauges and measure hi and lo at 1500rpm, and do the Merc FSM test to see how we're doing performance wise. I'm putting r12 back in my system, but all of the valves I can for the application (1990 jeep grand wagoneer) say r134a on them. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. You can also check the Aux fan in your case. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Only show this user. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. 1.5 ounces - hmmm. I know this is bad, etc, and deposits on the metal can act as insulators. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. . It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. Disconnect the two hose lines to the compressor, protect the ends from getting dirty. I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. When you add fluorescent tracer dye to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. That is a good thing. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. Nice to use new gadgets! Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. #4. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. . The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. So the steps involved are cleaning out the old oil, replacing all the O-rings, replacing the dryer, replacing the expansion valve, and converting the high and low side connectors from Schrader to quick connect valves. Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. Poc temps desprs van decidir unir els dos webs sota el nom de Xarxa Catal, el conjunt de pgines que oferirien de franc sries doblades i/o subtitulades en catal. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. R-12 is no longer used or produced in many countries and remaining quantities have skyrocketed in price. Edited: Sat July 14, 2007 at 10:22 PM by fonebone. It was later found that R-134a had a very high Global Warming Potential, or GWP, number. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. Any advice appreciated. . by | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. 10,000BTU conduction heating? So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. I found that in the..Maxposition on the control it will have the compressor running all the time. I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. What is a T/C?4. It is possible I have 10 ounces (250 ml) in the system. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! I have just bought gauges. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. The old compressor used R12 and the new unit will be R134a. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. Vent temperatures slowly go down to around 50F with hi speed driving. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. The difference really shows up on the high side. The ozone depletion potential of a chemical is a factor that shows the level of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds and secures the earth from harmful radiation. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. Electric fans do wear out. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. The difference between R12 and R134a TEV (exp valves) is primarily the 'superheat'. 5) A/C System Failure. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. If the water valve is not closing all the way you will have re-heating of the cabin air.The cabin blower was not exactly a powerhouse - it was rated at 200w. Besides, you have a greaseisel. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . Are you sure you have an R4? And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. What effect would it have on performance, if any? Then when it is switched off for a few minutes and then back on, the air cools again. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. Instead of using R12, its preferable to use R134a because it is very easy to find in the market, its sold at an affordable price, and is environmentally friendly. If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? Temp switch works the aux fan. They have no moving parts. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? Rich Membership Chairman Using R134a in an R12 system will cause the oil not to move with the refrigerant, causing a system failure and probably won't even cool the system well, if at all. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. Next I'll jumper the aux fan. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. It won't be optimal, though. compressor, condenser, evaporator and expansion valve are specifically designed for use with R134a. I don't know where it is getting the switch off command, or why the vent temp drops steadily. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. We sometimes use a relay switched from the compressor clutch to run fans. 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. had writing on the side that said R134a. It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. How is 1234yf different from . The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge.